If you want to go against your country and abolish The Pledge of Allegence, then by all means pack up your bags and move to Iraq!!!!!I am so tired of people like you trying to corrupt our union by constanly bashing the things we hold to be true and comforting in this country. If you do not like it, then leave!! Have you forgotten that this country was founded on the premise of God! The Purtians were not allowed to practice their faith. So, go to some other country that sares your own ideas. God Bless you and forgive your moments of insanity, A Military Wife.
Dear military wife,
Aside from the fact that Jesus insisted we love one another, your spouse is fighting so that ALL people can state their opinions in this country. I do not always agree with opinions but I respect the giver. I do not agree with the current war but I will do everything to honor your spouse should he be called to battle.
by the way.. lets not forget freedom of religion... lets not force god down the throats of those who may worship in other ways.
Just a bit of a personal slant on this issue: I remember during my elementary school days, we'd say the pledge every morning. I had no problem with that- I was deeply religious at the time, and I was (and am) patriotic. But I also remember what happened to kids that didn't say the pledge. They were looked down on as lazy, or as troublemakers. If they were old enough to have strong opinions, I'm sure they would have been thought of as unpatriotic. We were expected to say the pledge, in it's entirety, and with feeling, dammit!
Most of the kids that didn't stand up were probably being lazy or bratty. But what if a kid didn't want to do it because of religious beliefs? He or she would be seen in the same light. The student would be forced to choose between abandoning his or her religion on one hand, or incurring the disapproval of the teacher and the class on the other. Kids should not be forced to make that decision.
Oh, and an ironic note on the Puritans: they were fleeing religious intolerance, yet their society was equally intolerant. I wouldn't want to be an athiest, Jew, Native American, or whatever in a Puritan village.
Actually, if any can believe the WORD of GOD, this is part of the fullfillment of PROPHECY!!!
Not many care to prove to themselves this TRUTH, however for those select few whose mind is NOT CLOSE, please consult with your own Bible* the following; www.thetrumpet.com under 'resources' menu select 'literature' then chose "U.S. and Britain in Prophecy (1980)"
Or copy and past this link to your browser; {http://www.thetrumpet.com/geo/na/docs/Literature.asp?view=Toc&id=34,http://www.thetrumpet.com/geo/na/docs/Literature.asp?view=Toc&id=34}
and then for online KJV *Scriptures for reference and proof go to http://www.blueletterbible.org/
After all what did Jesus mean in
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
As a pagan living in richmond I really am very tired of the "christian" populace forcing religion down everyone who they can get ther hands on throat! Please, there is seperation of church and state for a reason, it is there to keep people of ALL religons on an equal plane.. if children of pagans are forced to say the Pledge, including "Under God" is this not removing the righ to free speech?
I too remember when I was in elementary school, saying the pledge in class, and never having a problem with it. This is because I was very young and hadn't yet formed such strong political/religious opinions as I have now. I personally do not want my child to be forced to say the pledge in the classroom, or anywhere for that matter. I really don't mind if it's optional, but no one had better dare threaten my child with punishment for refusing to recite the pledge. Like the person above, I am a pagan living in Richmond and find this to be one of the most intolerant places I have ever lived. I don't flaunt my beliefs in others faces, nor do I try to "convert" others to my faith, I wish others would stick to this common courtesy. Some people really need to stop deluding themselves into thinking this is "One Nation Under God." There are many different people who worship in many different ways and many different deities: God, Allah, Buddha, The Goddess, and (gasp!) even the Christian Devil. Diversity is not going to go away, but of course, neither will intolerance.
There have been some very thoughtful comments made in this thread. I know this is a very delicate subject. All I ask of people is this: if the pledge said "One nation under Allah" would you still say it? How would you react to people who called you unpratriotic for not saying "under Allah"?
That being said, God bless our troops. I want them to all come home safely and for the Iraqis to enjoy even a fragment of the freedom and security that we have in the USA.
The word "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God." Therefore, if I were speaking Arabic I would have no trouble saying "One Nation under Allah." In a like manner most Muslims, when they are speaking English have no difficulty saying "One National under God." Incidently, Islam proclaims that the God of Muhammad is the same God as the God of Abraham, Issac, Ishmael and Jacob. Christianity makes the same claim. Therefore, "Allah" and "God" identify the same divine being. You can also use "El Shaddai," "Yahweh," "Elohim' "Adonai" and "Lord God," or even "El" if you want. All refer to the same being. Probably the Sikhs have the best idea. They call God, "Sat Nam," which means "True Name." We are not sure of your name, but whatever it is we worship you.
My son, leading an advanced party of Special Forces in Afghanistan was surrounded by a much larger party of apparently hostile tribesmen. He approached them, weapons at the ready, and suggested that they join in prayer. They took turns leading in prayer to Allah, and to God recognizing that they were praying to the same deity. This action made friends and probably saved the lives of the men in his unit, and the lives of many of the Muslims present. We often do not have as much sense at home as the well trained Green Berets do in combat.
I hope these comments help.
Richard Stadelmann
Richard,
Your words are very wise and your son is very wise.
Millions of people have died over centuries fighting the issue of whether Jesus was the Messiah, a prophet, or a madman. Regardless of anyone's views on Christ his message was tolerance and empathy. Unfortunately these days many Americans use religion as a way to be exclusive rather than inclusive. They see their beliefs as right and no deviation is acceptable. So while we may accept Yahweh, Jehovah, God and Allah as simply different sides of the same coin, others lack the tolerance and understanding appreciate just how similar the major religions of the world really are. And what of the Buddhists, Shinto, agnostics and others who don't necessarily believe in the judeo-christian-muslim God?
For those reasons I think it was wrong for the government to insert "under God" into the pledge in the 1950s, and it's probably right to remove it now. This is by no means a Godless country. Faith runs deep in America, but faith is personal thing. I worry that although I may agree today with which God they want me to worship, tomorrow they may start telling me how to worship God, and that should never happen in America.
Now maybe I'm a bit biased. See, the pledge makes me uncomfortable altogether. It seems awfully fascist. I don't need to recite a monotone pledge to help me believe in the principles of this country. I love this country. I'd rather sign the national anthem each morning and put some passion behind my patriotism. Plus singing helps get the blood flowing. When I was a kid I remember being nearly asleep at pledge time. A little singing will pep up first period. Of course, now that I'm an adult I have coffee and soda to keep me going all day long.
To end on a serious note, I wish your son all the safety in the world. I hope we will return the focus to Afghanistan. The Talliban is regrouping, democracy is struggling and the Afghan/Pakistan border is probably where Bin Laden and his captains are. They are the ones planning the next attack on American soil.
Ryan
Ryan, your comments were well put. I agree that we should not use the term "under God" in the pledge, and I frankly find it a rude and oppressing gesture to assume that every person in our country worships "God" or any god at all. If we are so strong of a country to separate religion and government, why do we force our children to regurgitate an idea that clearly re-unites church and state in their minds? Additionally, when I think of patriotism, I think of exercising your rights (including freedom of religion and freedom of speech) in a manner that's meaningful to your own life, not spitting out a lengthy poem that someone wrote long ago .